Church and "state"?

Here is a response I wrote to only the mention of the issue of church and state, it is one side of the issue as seen from "Mt. David Severy". LOL, but seriously I write and think like this, and long for those who would cheerfully respond, not to debate, but to dialog, and move toward knowing God's heart and will together.

Re: separation of church and state: What would George Washington have done? Would he (George Washington) have told the nation to clean up TV and the Internet? Or would he have told us to put them out of our homes?

Didn't God first call Abraham, separating him out of his pagan land and bring lead and join him in the Covenant of Promise? Didn't God call (separate) Israel out of Egypt? Didn't God from Samuel to Malachi continually call the children of Israel to faithfulness and away from their idolatry? Didn't God call "whosoever will" to separate himself from the world, flesh and the devil by faith in His Son and join himself to God and to His people? And having left the world behind, are christian people not called to continue to be separated from the world by the renewal of their mind according to the thoughts of the mind of Christ.?

Should we be surprised that there are many in the world, in our nation and even in our "churches" who don't desire the separation God calls men to that He might save them? I am not a zealot every moment myself. I am not every moment 100% faithful to God. Yet how much can we expect of the unsaved, of the pagan, of the enemies of God? Do we want also to conquer them as we do often try to conquer each other: denominationally, doctrinally, and even in the hypocrisy of our traditions? (I am guilty of my own part in this, too) Is there not enough to oppose in the heretics, and in the wolves who attack us?

I am not what I should be. God has made it clear to me that I have often imposed my views on others in the same unkind ways that others have done to me. Yet I continue to believe that if a christian will separate (sanctify and consecrate) himself to God, God will lead him in a way which will overcome the world and the flesh and the devil, and overcome the unloving, unkind ways we (I) often walk in toward each other. If the church were to do this believer by believer, rather than try to herd the whole world or nation into repentance and obedience (something it is itself not accomplished in fully), the results might astonish.

As it stands, the church is mocked, I fear, because of it's worldliness, it's compromise with the devil and it's lack of knowledge the will of God, not for any lack of knowledge of the will of the founding "fathers".

2 Corinthians 6:17 "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."

Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

I marvel at what the Anabaptist's have accomplished and maintained for several centuries. Not by trying to bend the world around them to the Ways of God, but by being willing to bend their own necks in His yoke. And they do this without participation in politics!

My POV? And I give it knowing all to well my own failures to live up to my own expectations, and to God's< Let the christian be faithful to God, and let the world do as it will. No man was ever influenced well by any lawgiver except God. It has been said that the civil authorities are a reflection of the desires of the populations they govern, yet we know that they bear the sword as God's ministers. Therefore shall the word of the Lord be effectual, which bids men and women of Christ's blood:

1 Timothy 2:2
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight , that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world , that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice .

Jesus had to go to the cross. The apostles found out they had to go to their crosses as well, and Jesus tells us all: unless we pick up our cross daily we are missing the call of God. We are not called out of the world to rebuild a temporal psuedo christian world where we are not persecuted. The blood of the Martyrs IS the seed of the church. The church miraculously grows fastest in times and places of great persecution. Has the devil has not effective in thwarting the growth of the church in America by loading it with material wealth, and by tempting the church to protect the national interest above it's christian need of holiness?

I don't want the last word, but will ask: didn't Jesus come that men should hear the truth and choose their king for the world to come, not to establish an earthly Kingdom presently, but to choose and be built by God into an eternal spiritual house? If so does this require the imposition of moral law on those who will reject it out of hand? I think it would be wonderful if the world would wake up, "straighten up and fly right". But will it ever come under conviction when we as christians chase after everything except God's holiness? The "founders" gave us a rupublic, God gave us a Kingdom and His Son our King. There is a difference.

Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 3:10
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

To build upon this eternal foundation requires we ourselves become living stones. Not that we require others to be living stones, although Jesus did command the eleven to make disciples of all nations, but not to make all nations into disciples. The latter is certainly impossible. At the least it can only be accomplished by the former coming first. We are called to become like our master, and we cannot become greater. But to be like Jesus is to daily carry our cross. After all Jesus picked up His Cross sometime ago, for it is written :

Revelation 13:8 ...all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

Again, I have to remind myself of my own moral failures, and great need to walk what I talk. If I don't give attention to my own repentance, I risk becoming the very thing that Jesus seemed to hate the most: an hypocrite. But I can't escape the "feeling" that the evangelical arm of Christ's body it the USA needs to hold itself to account before it hold's the unbeliever's feet to the fire. This is what I am trying desperately to do in my own life, by holding myself accountable to God, and repenting. Don't we need to make some sacrifices? Wouldn't turning off TV and Internet, or turning them out of our homes be wisdom? I have no TV at home. I recently got a computer, and am already wondering how big a mistake it may have been! We are barely able, by all accounts, to promote 10% of our children into their adult lives committed to Him. Shall we tame the devil and have our children be saved? Our neighbor? Our enemies? Or shall we flee fornication and idolatry, and humble ourselves before God? Fornication and idolatry are the mainstay of TV, Cinema, and online entertainment. The devil shall never be tamed, but he may be overcome.

Compromise(rs)?

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Dear Friends,

If you don't think the political "arena" is a place of compromise, let this old man try to give some focus. We have recently witnessed the removal of Mark Foley from the U.S. House of Reps. And oh, what a buzz and flap now is made. But consider : Yesterday one of SRN's and Townhall's finest reminded his national audience this very true and relevant fact: That the Republican Party has been welcoming gays, (read homosexuals) into the fold for some time. He pointed out that Republican gays are part of the U.S. Government. They even have such a "sweet" name: The Log Cabin Party. Is that like in Lincoln's humble home? Or is that like putting "logs" into "the cabin"? Sorry, but I have seen much in present day Sodom, and we need to be reminded of just what sodomy is, for we seem to have altogether forgotten!

Now the harvest has come. And all the Republican Party faithful are aghast at Foley's indiscretions? Didn't they KNOW what the end would be of their decision to befriend such men/women? Very few know the pain and conflict of men who have fallen into the pit of sexual immorality and still have a desire to do good, and to serve. But today, what is needed to be done to HELP these men/women is not being done. And what is needed is painful for all involved and unpopular, and does not guarantee success. This is what is needed:

1) Call Homosexuality and all sexual immorality SIN. Say that God does call and condemn it as such, and that you agree with God. Do not condemn the immoral person- for your sins, of what ever bent, are many, or at the least enough, and God condemns all sin.
2) Identify and shun, and seek the removal of all immoral persons from the "party".

By now many are undoubtedly laughing, shaking their heads and thinking - "this is not the church we are talking about, it's the Government."!

Others might be thinking- "if only we could operate the Government as God rules the church".
And I'm thinking- "if only the church would obey God, and "legislate" from it's knees instead of trying to do it from the House floor".

Some may see that this is the Bible's way that I proposed for the Republican "party". It was demonstrated (done) in the Church at Corinth. Paul, the apostle of the Messiah, instructed the church to remove the immoral man for the sake of that man's own soul, and also for the well being of the church. It is clear that they followed his instructions, for later Paul instructed them to welcome the man back into their fellowship, for he (surely must have) repented, reformed, changed. And we shall (?) hope and pray for Mark Foley, yes?, no?

But questions do present here, for some still say we shall have a fine involvement of our faith and politics. Shall those in political and very public civil life or those in the Republican "party", (see Galatians 5:19-21 Amplified Version) submit and be bound to Bible ways? This is the very dilemma that is warred over in the guise of the separation of church and state. For to live in submission to the God of the Bible is not popular, and is quite abhorrent to those who prefer, endorse, and promote "gay" ways (and atheist ways). Next question: What level of authority do Christians have to make law for those who resist God's law? Did God commission us to become civil legislators or to make disciples? We may posit a mandate from "our founding fathers"; but do we have that mandate from God whose Son would have us "call no man father"? (see Matthew 23:9) Is it ever possible to establish civil law apart from all the wishes of all the people? Is compromise of right ways ever entirely avoided? And if not, and I think it is not, how shall we account for the damage done (or at least possible) by our compromises? Is not compromise of God's way itself sin for the believer, the christian? Does God ever charge the church to rule the civil magestries? These are questions not addressed since the 1500's in most places where the church has been established.

Frankly, I think it quite reasonable in the U.S. of A. for the church to butt out of the civil government which christian men founded in such a way to stay out of their affairs. All this really does illuminate is the temporal nature of time that God has ordained for all men: we call it 2006, and men's inability to explain the Constitution, and also particularly churchmen's inability to explain right doctrine. Does christendom in North American want to do daily war in state and national capitols, to win what God says we might well have by faith from our knees, and this in addition to the war it does do daily within it's own denominal houses? (See 1 Corinthians 11:18,19)

"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." Paul, apostle of Christ 1 Timothy 2:1-3

I note that no recommendation is made to apply to Ceasar for admission to the Senate, and that the words quiet, peaceable, godliness, and honesty are not often adjectives associated with Washington insiders, or insider wannabes.

We who name the Name of Jesus must think over very carefully our walk through the political world which so many Christians (?) commend. Yes? No? The saying goes, "Get down on your knees and fight like a man". And how I also need to do this, and more. I know a lot about compromise. Please pray for me as well as Mr. Foley…

Milieu Control

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On "Religion" and Politics

I gotta tell it like I see it: "Religion" and politics seem inseparable today, but holy religion and faith need to remain separated from politics for some very good reasons.

A faithful man who goes into the arena of Politics goes to the place of "statecraft" (the art of conducting state affairs). It is a place of compromise and without doubt a place where the love of money prevails over many souls.

The man who trusts God has no need of defending his life in this arena. Nor does the man of faith need to wage war with his neighbor or his enemies. The man of faith KNOWS that the event of his own mortal demise catapults him to another place, where no trace, not the slightest trace at all of greed, compromise or strife is found. He knows that this is also true for his beloved wife and children, as He trusts God with their destiny.

But let a man of faith enter the arena of politics and watch him. Watch him as forces of the war already being waged against him now cohabit his daily milieu. Watch him as the bad company he must keep begins to corrupt the good moral character God has graciously built into him. Watch him as the accomplishments of his political career rarely influence others to become faithful to God, but merely maintain status quo arrangements, preexisting conditions, matters that he and God would more powerfully CONTROL through PRAYER.

Call men out of sin, but be ever so careful and wary as to how close you get to them as you call. The damage that can be done in one hour of compromise can compromise for a lifetime the good God has done for you. Very few have done much good in political careers. Many have tried. If you are a Wilberforce, then I will not forbid you. But if you are like my own self, a weak and sinful but repentant soul, in need of daily forgiveness from God, I will nearly forbid you, warning you, and encouraging you that what you might do on your knees with God, could outstrip even the good of a Wilberforce.

Our object as men of God? Not to be holier than our brother, our neighbor, or our enemy; but to obey the command: "...he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy." 1 Peter 1: 15,16

Not Surprised

Why I Am x Surprised By Foley's Moral Failure
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I am of a “generation” brought by God’s providence into the world at a time of crisis. I was born in 1949. Eleven months prior to my birth, a very historic “rebirth” took place when Israel was mandate her homeland in “Palestine”. This is seen by many as a “sign” from God, or if you prefer, an indicator of things soon to come. The jury will remain out for most of us regarding God’s timetable, as tomorrow is a mystery to mortals. And I offer my “history” not as a sign from God, though it might be received as an indicator of what some part of the crisis of “my generation” has wrought in me, and to one degree or another, wrought in so very many men of “my generation”. For I confess my sinfulness and my sins, but will go to my grave believing that I am part of a group of many men of the U.S. of A. who have met with similar “opportunities” for evil doing, and have done them.


The following list might be seen as a poll. How many of the following can you identify with? Perhaps a scale of one to ten might be useful. I don’t expect too many who have gotten this far to go much further, for my story is neither unique nor attractive. It might make a better movie, with a theme running somewhere between Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Midnight Cowboy. But I proceed hoping that some good may come of confession, that some might avoid learning the hard way what I have learned, and avoid the paths I have regrettably trod upon. I’ll preface it with this title:


By age _______ I was: _______________.


5…..terrified of my own Dad

7…..learned to live with fear of parents yet…

7…..learned to hide my misdeeds and…

7…..became exercised in disobedience

8.….began on a path of daily sexual self abuse courtesy of a “friend’s” education and…

8.….began a daily search for pictures of women in whatever state of undress available and…

10…began stealing money from my Mom’s purse

12…began on a path of tobacco addiction by stealing my mother’s cigarettes

16…became addicted to one pack (20) cigarettes a day funded by allowance or theft and…

16…consuming beer purchased for me by 18 year old friends in Wash. D.C. and…

16…consuming beer in bars in Washington D.C. though underage

18…begun habit of marijuana consumption daily when possible and…

18…pursued pornography more openly and successfully

19…had my first relationship and sexual experience with a girl which lasted 2+ years

21…began again to use pornography

22…girlfriend dumps me and …

22…had first experience with prostitute and…

22…pursued hard core pornography and…

22…visited topless/bottomless bars for the first time


I’m 57 now. If you were born between 1946 and 1964, you are called a “boomer” a member of the post WWII baby boom generation. My guess is that 50% of male boomers would respond that they do identify with more than 50% the list above. They might not have experienced these things in the order or the magnitude of my personal experience, but I believe many would say “been there, done that”. And it didn’t stop in 1964. If anything, the ball which started rolling over my generation kept right on rolling and is rolling today, rolling over many if not most men, and to an increasing extent over women as well.


This ball, this crisis I refer to is not the rebirth of Israel, which I referenced above, although it may be a reference, or a benchmark some will consider for reasons relative to their faith in God. The ball, the crisis I refer to is the mass production, distribution and reception of pornography! It began in December 1953, with the first issue of Playboy Magazine, whose founder Hugh Hefner looks exceedingly healthy for an 80 year old cancer survivor. In my Google search for accuracy I have found that Hefner and I share the same birth date, April 9th, he being 23 years older than I, to the day!!! (uuggghhh… One good thing did happen on April 9th [1865], the armistice was signed between Lee and Grant ending the US Civil War) Now I am not going to say that all my sin, or any of it can be Hefner’s fault, or the fault of those who lost the battle against pornography in the courts. But I am of the view that this was an event which marked a new and more damaging flood of iniquity into the nation, a flood that continues today to be a major factor in what many are calling the “coarsening” of American “culture”.


I have had occasion to meditate much on the matter of pornography’s ongoing inroads into the souls of North American men and women. I was 5 years old in 1954. What the nation had allowed to happen that winter of 1953-54 was became this “ball” rolling in the direction of every man and some few women in the US. My own father eventually had some involvement with pornography, as my younger brother did find a Playboy magazine at home. What year that was, I do not know. I saw my first issue around 1959 at my cousin’s home, it belonged to my uncle. But I know from my own experience, which began sexually around 1957, the desire to view pornography was mounting in the hearts of many, many men. Additionally, I believe the inhibitions against doing this were under great pressures to be abandoned. Temptation and availability, and a new look of glamour (see http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/glamour) made this pressure a constant fact of life for predisposed souls, and an unholy consideration for those standing against such things. I say that from the intuition of my 57 years lived in this generation.


I want to make some comments on “culture”. Culture is though of as a “good thing”. I have come to think of culture as the things which grow in a Petri dish. From Wikipedia one may learn: Petri dishes are round shallow glass or plastic dishes that biologists use to culture cells, cells which can be bacterial, animal, plant, or fungus. It was named after the German bacteriologist Julius Richard Petri. It was invented in 1877. The dishes are filled with various substances called media which provide food to the cells “cultured”. The “American culture” which is so much in discussion is perhaps best seen as cells : citizens who are introduced to various media : venues and derive food : fine to coarse arts by which they grow : become “cultured”.


As I see it pornography is a venue of very coarse art. Again from Wikipedia this very cogent definition of pornography: Pornography (from Greek (porni) "prostitute" and (grafi) "writing"), more informally referred to as porn or porno, is the representation of the human body or sexual activity with the goal of sexual arousal. "The explicit artistic depiction of men and/or women as sexual beings." It is similar to, but distinct from erotica, though the two terms are often used interchangeably. It should be note that it is used for more than arousal; it is used for sexual gratification, as an adjunct or aid to the achievement of sexual orgasm.


Nobody against pornography likes to talk about it. We all get, or ought to get very squeamish when this topic is broached. But too frequently we titter (to laugh in a nervous, affected, or partly suppressed manner), or worse: get titillated (to be excited pleasurably: aroused by stimulation). So we assiduously avoid the topic, and we ignore the peril to our sons and daughters and our community from this obvious and truly devilish strategy on our souls. But if we do admit that pornography is wrong, and damaging to everyone it touches, and in fact can lead one to a real and eternal place called h-ll, then we ought to seek strength to resist it’s lures, to protect our loved ones, and to fight it’s perpetrators, human and spiritual.


If you have read this far and do not believe pornography to be a most evil and damaging venue of the basest “entertainment”, you cannot really believe any human activity to be evil. The basis for determining wrong from right is not your possession. YOU need to think that through very carefully. You are likely one taught that YOU are the one who determines wrong from right. If you believe this, then I want to tell you there are more than 6 billion other people you must allow the same liberty. The conflicts which result every day, in myriad upon myriad of ways, because we will not accept the Absolute Truth; these conflicts will be with us until our dying day. But this does not mean we need to consent to them by defaulting to moral relevancy. Acts are judged, and have been judged by men since the beginning of time. The Absolute Truth is given to make it easier to live, and easier to judge correctly, but we flee Absolute Truth’s presence preferring our own (6+ billion) brand(s) of “truth”, which are no truth at all.


But if you have read now on, believing in our Truth Absolute for every man, then what shall we say? And to whom shall we say it? I fear that what needs to be said must be said to those who lead. We, or at the least I, wish, want, deeply desire and plead with leaders everywhere, political and religious, to lead us back to an environment conducive to moral self control, and particularly to the protection of our sons and daughters from an environment which makes merchandise of their sexual “talents”. Today it is still illegal by civil law to have even consensual sex with a woman under 18 in all but 3 states (USA). But once she (your, my daughter?) has her 18th birthday, she is legally permitted to disrobe for the pornographer, and to engage in any form of sexual behavior, hetero, h-mo, sado-masochistic, bestial, what else is left? AND BE PHOTOGRAPHED IN THESE ACTS, WHY? So the pornographer can profit by the sale of the still and moving images of this girls behavior.


Why do I spell this all out? Why review these unseemly acts and related matters? These behaviors are found rampant in Government and in the church TODAY. A man who counseled men at a recent Christian “Men’s Retreat” told me that 80 %, one in every five men he spoke with was viewing pornography. This sin ran my soul down starting around age 8, when my pornography, my “images”, my idols were found in the Sears and Roebuck’s catalog, and in the New York Times Sunday Book Review. But before I was 20, they were from Playboy. Today Playboy is running right along side every other “mainstream” pornographic magazine with full blown and fully completed sex acts photographed. I will not describe them further than that, except to say they are mild compared to the internet “offerings”.


I want to tell you, both the church and the civil Government, that both “your houses” are imperiled by the toleration of the pornographer and his work. It will bring the house down, either simply by and sure moral decay over the years, or by the judgment of God in an instant. Witness the tsunami which wiped out the coast of Thailand and other Far East Asian locals where the sex “industry” and sex “tours” (or those wealthy enough to play there) had been a mainstay of tourism for three or more decades. I frankly do not understand the churches lack of activism here, and lack of preaching/teaching, except that it’s own “house” is filthy. Nor do I understand the civil government’s permissiveness, except that it is under no moral mandate, and is subject both to the bribes of the pornographer and demonic influence.

Are men beyond caring? I care. I have care enough to have fought this sin (and woefully to have lost many battles) for nearly one half a century. I regret to say that perhaps? there is very little that can be done. We may be near or at the place where there is a Divine withdrawal of grace regarding what might have been done in past times. The thought of that makes causes my soul to feel as if dead. But there is a time coming (come already?) when “no man can work”. And also a mandate coming (come already?) when the church shall receive this word:


He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Revelation 22:11



Are we there yet? I don’t know. This I do know: Jesus Christ alone can save from h-ll.

Why Some ARE Hated.

Why some ARE hated...

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Ezekiel 23:29 And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

4 It is true that the Lord was crucified nearer to Jerusalem than Rome. The exact location is still disputed, some say within the city (Jerusalem) some say outside. Hebrews 13.11The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. 13Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. 14For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come. And the Lord did refer to Jerusalem as Sodom in Ezekiel Ch. 16. But believing these facts does not save you, nor does it validate 1600 years of Roman Catholic history! I think it is worth noting that Rome occupied Jerusalem/Israel when our Lord was crucified, and that the comfortable political relationship was for the Pharisees apostasy, for what else could it be? 1 Corinthians 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord's table and of the table of demons. And if it was faithlessness for the Pharisees and their synagogues, what shall it have been for Rome? The sins of Cain, Balaam, Jezebel, Jannes and Jambres, and eventually the nicolatian heresy?

If we want the Lord's approbation we must seek it from HIM, not from Rome, not from our association with Israel, not even from each other. We are to live our lives with love for one another by the power of the Lord. No amount of political correctness in "christian" doctrine will substitute for being "found in Him". 1 Corinthians 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. Galatians 2:17 "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!Philippians 3.8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death

So it is wise for us to pray for each other, knowing that whatever the nearness of the Day of the Lord, the day of our mortal demise is certainly nearer that at the bginning of this very hour! Can we let our doctrine be our doctrine, and not shove it in each others faces? Can we commit to praying the Lord change our "brother"? Or have we forgotten the slimy rock the Lord found us under? It was not the Roman Church, slimy though she and many other non Roman churches be. The Lord found us under the slimy rock of our own transgressions, in our own filthy rags. They were not doctrinal misunderstandings, they were moral sins and failures, and many of us have the appearance of being trapped by them still! Other wise why is christendom , mocked, despised, ridiculed by the world? God cannot be mocked, but unfaithful "believers" can and will be. We should be the city on the hill and the salt of the earth, but it reeks of hypocrisy still, and of heresy (better named doctrinal/denominational disputing, (see 1 Corinthians), which seems to this man to be the substance of what the world perceives (rightly?) as our(?) hypocrisy. The whore is really not just unfaithful Rome, but apostasy where ever God is named but denied, where ever His Name, even just the Name God is used purposely in vanity and deceit. Jeremiah 48:10 Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.

We need to remember that the appelation APOSTATE does truly mean twice dead. Jude 1.11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about[a] by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. It is not a term to throw around cavalierly. To charge even Benedict XVI with apostacy is a very serious thing to do, for doing so says he is unalterably hell bound. I don't think we need to be determining the destination of Benedict XVI or any Roman Cathoilc soul. Let us turn our attention to the matters of our own deep hearts, and to our spouses and children. It is perilous, I think, and perhaps presumptuous to go furether than our own front doors with anything but the GOOD NEWS. Leave your personal grudges against religious institutions in God's capable hands. Please. Or write YET ANOTHER book on why Roman membership will doom you.